tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3611639517962742486.post2125454530795159116..comments2024-03-29T04:05:35.407-07:00Comments on We Live In A Political World: #125 / An Ecomodernist ManifestoGary A. Pattonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15049925834933920507noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3611639517962742486.post-30943000005277023302015-05-07T12:41:55.937-07:002015-05-07T12:41:55.937-07:00What do you mean when you say "being" th...What do you mean when you say "being" the environment and nature?@PhysicsPolicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04664172982768472896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3611639517962742486.post-64118697094792220772015-05-07T12:41:39.217-07:002015-05-07T12:41:39.217-07:00What does submission to the primacy of nature mean...What does submission to the primacy of nature mean, if not living without technology?@PhysicsPolicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04664172982768472896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3611639517962742486.post-51108168627644637012015-05-06T19:23:54.416-07:002015-05-06T19:23:54.416-07:00No one has said anything about living without tech...No one has said anything about living without technology. This is impossible. Technology is is not just tools. Technology is the way humans do things, material tools or empty hands.Michael A. Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04980105313542633114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3611639517962742486.post-53241372348403639082015-05-06T17:22:08.902-07:002015-05-06T17:22:08.902-07:00What do you mean when you say "being" th...What do you mean when you say "being" the environment and nature? What does grocking nature have to do with living without technology?@PhysicsPolicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04664172982768472896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3611639517962742486.post-23100293742453773732015-05-06T12:10:02.542-07:002015-05-06T12:10:02.542-07:00Here's a cogent response to the "manifest...Here's a cogent response to the "manifesto."<br />http://www.resilience.org/stories/2015-05-06/a-degrowth-response-to-an-ecomodernist-manifestoMichael A. Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04980105313542633114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3611639517962742486.post-30954800909332544402015-05-06T02:53:16.394-07:002015-05-06T02:53:16.394-07:00We can consume fresh water faster than it would na...We can consume fresh water faster than it would naturally be replenished by filtering the salt out of seawater. We generate nitrogen in a form plants can use faster than it would naturally be replenished in the soil using the Haber process. These seem consistent with your definition of environmentalism.@PhysicsPolicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04664172982768472896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3611639517962742486.post-28111906227058024882015-05-06T02:47:33.195-07:002015-05-06T02:47:33.195-07:00Your experience is anecdote, not evidence. If you ...Your experience is anecdote, not evidence. If you have actual evidence to back it up, please share. It's pretty clear that "harmonization with nature" means living like people did several thousand years ago. What do you mean when you say "being" the environment and nature? The man who dumps his used car oil down the storm drain is as much a part of nature as the man who has his used car oil safely recycled. The difference isn't in being. It's a difference in action and intention. No, we cannot separate ourselves from nature. This entire blog is an exercise in false dichotomy. What does grocking nature have to do with living the way Gary wants, without technology?@PhysicsPolicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04664172982768472896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3611639517962742486.post-27132774795237970232015-05-05T20:15:38.119-07:002015-05-05T20:15:38.119-07:00I've found quite the opposite to be true. In m...I've found quite the opposite to be true. In my experience, those who don't have a direct experience with the natural world for a sustained period, never develop a strong commitment to preservation of the natural world.<br /><br />You don't get it in a weekend trip to the Catskills, or a guided river trip down the Colorado. It takes at least a week to shed the habits and trappings of civilization and its fast pace of life to get in tune with the natural world.<br /><br />If you came back to the human material world and you're not bewildered by the dazzling speed and complexity of its life, you've not been away long enough.<br /><br />This is one of the main reasons that "environmentalism" has become a career corporate activity aimed at influencing politicians, economists and news organizations, rather than a calling that must be engaged because one can do nothing else.<br /><br />This is not about living off the land, living in caves or on Easter Island (which the authors and you have all wrong), slash and burn horticulture or any other form of primitivism. This is about living such that we do not consume resources faster than they are natural replenished and not producing wastes faster than they are naturally dispersed. This is about living within naturally occurring cycles of resource availability and not taking more than our share.<br /><br />This is not about protecting the environment (from What? Ourselves?) or protecting Nature. That's not our job. This is about BEING the environment and Nature. Our job is to NOT destroy Nature that is ourselves.<br /><br />We cannot separate ourselves from Nature and be Nature at the same time. <br /><br />We must Grok Nature. Michael A. Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04980105313542633114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3611639517962742486.post-78570182260507829642015-05-05T11:37:21.047-07:002015-05-05T11:37:21.047-07:00The authors reject harmonization with nature becau...The authors reject harmonization with nature because it's never been necessary for environmentalism. The later simply means protecting the health of the environment. People don't need to live in tree houses or eat foraged vegetables, etc. in order to care about protecting the health of the environment. In fact, living off the land, as it were, isn't necessarily sustainable. Consider Easter Island, Mega Fauna in the Americas (as the authors note but you seem not to appreciate), and slash-and-burn agricultural, for example. In order to minimize environmental harm caused by human life we need to get past ideological myths like the idea of harmonizing or submitting to the primacy of nature.@PhysicsPolicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04664172982768472896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3611639517962742486.post-14587390100030058322015-05-05T09:44:14.779-07:002015-05-05T09:44:14.779-07:00This seems to me to be part of a larger movement t...This seems to me to be part of a larger movement to co-opt environmental objections to continuing growth and development by adopting pseudo-environmental rhetoric. I see it coming out of pro-growth "think" tanks (if that's what they do) and funding foundations.<br /><br />Once you start pulling on this thread, the facade unravels pretty quickly. Michael A. Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04980105313542633114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3611639517962742486.post-71449348840180256242015-05-05T09:19:51.886-07:002015-05-05T09:19:51.886-07:00Yep! Your last line sums it up, and you and I are ...Yep! Your last line sums it up, and you and I are in total agreement there. Let's keep on pointing out the problem!! Hubris kills! Too bad all the other species go before we do, granted that it's likely that life will rebound!Gary A. Pattonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15049925834933920507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3611639517962742486.post-75629461670818129592015-05-05T08:52:48.830-07:002015-05-05T08:52:48.830-07:00I've been railing against this trend for some ...I've been railing against this trend for some time, as you might imagine. It started out as "ecopragmatism, and then, suddenly it morphed into "ecomodernism."<br /><br />It's nonsense, post-modernism run rampant. I'm not sure if the protagonists are trying to fool us or themselves.<br /><br />Notice that there are no environmentalists authoring this "manifesto;" they're economists, social advocates, journalists and "sustainable" developers. This is an anthropocentric, social agenda that has nothing to do with environmentalism.<br /><br />Whenever I see an "eco-" tacked on to the front of noun my bullshit detector goes off, especially when that noun has nothing to do with ecology: psychology, socialism, modernism, etc. It's obvious that the proponents are trying to pull their wool over my eyes.<br /><br />Ecomodernism is yet another attempt to escape from the reality of human society in a finite world.Michael A. Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04980105313542633114noreply@blogger.com